Spool vs welded diff. -'86 runner SAS cookie cutter build. I'd been told that they are all locked up if U are on the gas AT ALL. If not get a $1200 Limited Slip Differential vs a Free Welded Differential! Is saving the cash worth it? Let’s find out. 1. Jul 12, 2023 · Attach the spool gun to the MIG welder with a power cord. 8 welded up years ago and the shop neglected this and they had to redo Sep 17, 2008 · all right i'm down to either the aussie the spool or the lockright. This type can be used to simulate "spool" or "welded" differentials. A spooled rear end is a type of car suspension that uses a solid axle instead of an Jun 1, 2011 · Jeep Differential Welding 101. Mar 11, 2022 · Approximately from an MX5 point of view: £0-60 Welded. Worst case it'll puncture your housing. io/ Sep 20, 2004 · The locker should allow differential action in corners, when you are not on full throttle. Check out these videos on the clutch-type LSD: How LSDs Work. Moreover, there is a tension arm on the side of the spool gun. action at all if I was on the gas at all. . Sep 27, 2005 · Received 1 Like on 1 Post. Christian Hazel Writer Jun 01, 2011. Good for traction, hard on axles and tires. ---In road racing, I drove a Honda with a diff that had a mind of its own, never been so scared. No one makes these for our Mopars and therefore no one makes a spool. 1987 toyota pickup trail rigged turned DD. Both buggy and jeep have grizzlies in the front. Whenever you are doing something like welding without a tool designed to make it easier, it is important to remember that the small things matter. The solution is a locker for street/strip use. Here's some info that you guys probably need to know to give me advice-FP3575 turbo (planning to tune up to around 30psi)-Running a small shot of N2O to spool. It's not recommended for regular vehicles. Nov 7, 2021 · To do that, you have to disclose the contact tip and detach the canister cover of the spool gun. 1980 - 1986 Bullnose F100, F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks - how to weld/spool 9 inch rear - on a 9 in ford rear can i get to the spider gears to weld them Business, Economics, and Finance. Weld it, I think spools are too thin and cause deflection, seems the ring and pinion last better welded. Finally, some differentials are computer-controlled, actively sending torque where Locking differential. Personally I'd just stick with the welder. £250-350 Torsen LSD. Sep 8, 2010 · Its cheap, effective, and less likely to detonate. everyone of those locking techniques has pros and cons (so i'm told). Weld diff. When you install a mini-spool you don't have to re-setup the rear end because you don't need to remove everything. TheComingCurse. Wish I still had some pictures of it. Hence a lot of welders are being seen on them. Jun 14, 2004 · From what I understand a mini spool won't fit a trac-lok differential. Reply. the lockrite is cheap, turns better than welded (but i dont understand that cause as you turn it puts a bind on the locker and dosen't let it ratchet for turning) but uses Oct 9, 2013 · 768 posts · Joined 2007. ago. Sep 15, 2011 · A place to talk about how-to, techniques, troubleshooting, welding processes, welders, plasma cutters or other metalworking tools. Any good reasons to upgrade to 30A spool vs the 200 series as the former is almost twice the $$. Like any normal daily driver, street driven car. Oct 29, 2012 · A welded differential is always a bad idea. Mar 8, 2023 · Difference between Poppet Valve and Spool Valve. Similar to many other components on modern cars, the straightforward differential has undergone May 30, 2004 · RE: welding stuff I've always liked spools. Altering diff ratios. 2. Moreover, a 4043 spool gun cannot weld a 5000 series aluminum. benkispec. A spool ensures both left and right tires rotate at exactly the same speed. A 5356 spool gun is made by adding 5% magnesium to an aluminum alloy, as we have mentioned before. With that being said, I ran an Aussie Locker in my 8. lockrite vs. Oct 1, 2009 · Eventually after much discussion with the husband (discussing rear end gearing) it was discovered that the diff was welded. Feb 6, 2011 · MIG welding the gears isn't good enough. 7 – Tensile strength measured in pounds per square inch (PSI), multiplied by 10,000; in this case, 70,000 PSI. While a welded diff is way worse than a nice lsd, at least it puts power down. Faster and smoother transitions - LSD can be adjusted Mar 29, 2017 · I've run a rear welded with good success, but I prefer the locker over it on the street. The axle gears are holding the axles in by the c clips, so if the gears bust you are going to loose an axle. Aug 15, 2019 · A few good tips and tricks in this one. mrakatack. 6 8V, fuel injected, 4. the redneck that i bought my k5 from welded the diff with the axles still in it, and the axle let go from the heat weakening it. Our lemons car did faster laptimes with a welded diff than with open diff, and that is the goal. VT V6 Holden Commodore. Hopefully you guys take something away from this video and make sure your diff is welded properly. Nov 14, 2009 · 2152 posts · Joined 2007. Really predictable sliding characteristics because the diff is never changing state while you're driving. Currently my buggy rear is welded and has been untouched for years. The gears in the differential are heat treated steel and welding them makes them brittle. io/assets/0x8dd6792250b2118f568c230698632b6c1ac4d32d/1671https://opensea. It'll most likely be a little more in depth to install vs welding the spider gears. Easy to use: If you’re new to welding or simply want something easy, then MIG welding is the better option. it twisted and let go. With an open differential, the side gears allow the two tires to turn independently. Leaning towards the spoolmate 200 as I am not a professional and will not use this to make a livingmostly for my own use. 3rd member and welding the spider gears untill I noticed that from marlin a 5. To run a spool in a c-clip differential you need to install c-clip eliminators. After that, take 8″ aluminum wire and cut it. Net result will be the same as a spool. A stock LSD is shit though, pretty much regardless of car. That leaves three. Thx. Jan 7, 2024 · 4043 spool gun vs 5356 spool gun: Difference. Automatic Lockers: Lockers (mechanical locking differentials) provide 100% transfer of power to both drive wheels. Nov 7, 2012 · The full spool is quite a bit stronger than a mini spool since it's one piece of metal and not bits riding inside a carrier. A locking differential is a mechanical component, commonly used in vehicles, designed to overcome the chief limitation of a standard open differential by essentially "locking" both wheels on an axle together as if on a common shaft. What is the difference between an open differential and a locked differential?For information on how differentials work, I recommend the following video:http Spools are the easiest drift starter option, equivalent to a welded diff. 4 SOLD. The "welded diff" is done by welding the spider gears together in the factory differential. When coasting or rolling through a corner (no torque applied), the Jul 13, 2013 · 07-11-2013, 12:36 PM. Dec 20, 2023 · Arc welding is often preferred for thicker metals, while MIG welding is well-suited for thinner materials. • 6 yr. Jul 24, 2017 · A spool never unlocks, they all handle the same as a welded diff. When done by hand, the process is very similar to welding. Usually used on race only vehicles. Plug the power cords into the appropriate outlets. Not only is it cheaper but you can weld the gears to the housing which is much stronger then relying on the crosspin. 1-way, 2-way, 1. A cylinder of wood, plastic, cardboard, or other material on which wire, thread, or string is wound. Unlike open or limited-slip differentials, which allow for differences in wheel speed when turning, a spool differential’s locked configuration provides optimal traction. VL Turbo & V8 Holden Commodore. Nov 1, 2016 · Ran welded up carriers for years in many different axles, never a failure. Stub axle retaining clips included and installed, bearings pressed on for an additional charge. I really wouldn't recommend it for winter weather, especially if you are going to use it for a daily driver and have both ended welded. Nothing like being Aug 30, 2023 · Stone soldering can be done by hand or with the use of a machine. The spool locks the axles together permanently, similar to the low-buck In my post above, if you have 205 50 15 tires (or 23. Make sure you get one for drag racing and not dirt racing, there is a difference. " In this groundbreaking video, we dive May 2, 2019 · A full spool is a single piece that replaces the entire differential carrier with a single piece of metal that attaches to the ring gear and the axles. com. 87 Zuk, SPOA, Lockrights f/r, 31" Cooper Stt Pro's. You need to move much faster than you would with other metals, which does take some practice. Like. By contrast, a MIG welding spool contains several hundred feet of wire. Spool valves have cylindrical sleeves that control air or fluid flow by opening and closing the intake and exhaust ports. The idea of using a Spool gun is to avoid mess, but for aluminum, it can be a bit messier than the result we have from the TIG welding machine. My friend got an 8. A spool gun on a engine driven machine would not be my first choice. Next, heat is applied to the conductive material, which melts it and joins the two pieces of stone together. Reel. The name “positraction” was used by General Motors for their limited slip differential and the name has been associated with limited slips for many years. This allows both wheels to rotate at the same speed, which is ideal for drag racing or other applications where traction is important. Then a 2-way will provide lock-up on acceleration and deceleration with equal force as both ramps are the same shape. Jul 8, 2023 · #welded #RacingDiffs #drifting #e36 Welcome to the third episode of our captivating mini-series, "Welded Diff VS LSD. 25 is a c-clip axle. The job involves taking out and opening up your stock differential and welding a piece of metal between the spider gears M-W carries a specially formulated SAE 85-140 gear oil (made for Mark Williams Enterprises by Torco) that works superbly in both spool and locking differential applications. Jul 28, 2011 · Welding anything will generally weaken the parent material. Should be fine welded or spool for off-road use. Feb 5, 2024 · People who have never driven a welded diff car are always the first ones to tell you how bad it is . Dec 15, 2015 · What's the difference between open, locked, welded, Torsen, clutch type LSD, electronic, and torque vectoring differentials? There are many options to choose from, so which is Dec 16, 2020 · Use a magnet as well, to clean out any stray spatter. Mini spools are designed to lock the axles together as well but they use the existing carrier rather than replacing it entirely. A lot of top race cars run a spool diff too. In reality it is not really working as a differential at all but as a very stiff spring between the two outputs. A 1. That just means the spool/mini would cause a bigger bang when it broke. It's mainly about keeping both wheels spinning simultaneously, like in drift cars. Team Hi (James Pumphrey & Zach Jobe) and Team Low Dec 18, 2001 · welding the front diff vs. e. 136 posts · Joined 2008. Some completely lock the axles together, such as welded, spool, and locking differentials. au/ Instagram @rex_hyt https://www. Just lunged one way or the other violently. m. Poppet valves are typically used in engines, while spool valves are used in Mar 22, 2020 · Positraction is a type of limited slip. However, a 4043 spool gun has silicon added to it instead of magnesium in the alloy. Jan 19, 2015 · There’s a bit of terminology to know (see illustration below) before understanding how viscous limited-slip differentials work. I'm leaning toward the spool. patgizz wrote: do not weld with it in the case or axles/stubs installed. I didn't know if it would let any diff. Fitment notes: Fits open carriers / non LSD only. Jan 29, 2024 · Some welded connections use filler material, in the form of welding rods or electrodes. This open design consists of a ring-gear carrier with two main side gears splined to the axle shafts connected with two smaller spider gears. If you can spare the expense for a spool or good LSD then that could be the way to go. Jul 7, 2021 · Holding the spool from below (rather than by the rim), place it on the spool assembly, aligning the hole on the spool with the dowel on the wire feeder. a spool or a locker will make you want to push Welding Aluminum Without a Spool Gun. A spool (or even mini spool) would hold up a bit better than welded spider gears due to the heat caused by the welding. I mean either path will get you to your destination, but for my money I'd go with the spool just for the simple fact of how the saying goes: you can pay a little now or a lot later. 8 for many years without issues. Apply named by the Lincoln brand welder, it creates a “poor mans spool”. But there is the issue of shielding gas. Jun 28, 2018 · Posts: 6,356. May 17, 2017 · In this video we take the cheap jeep and do some redneck mods like welding the rear spider gears to the carrier and creating a redneck locker, welded diff, l Jul 21, 2019 · At this point, you may be thinking “Lincoln locker”, which is a term used when you simply weld the living begesus out of the spider gears in your differential. A cylindrical device attached to a fishing rod to let out or wind up the line. The travel speed is a bit more complicated for aluminum welding. Jan 18, 2024 · Sometimes you hear people talk about a 3-way diff, this is just another word for a locked/welded/ spool diff, as mentioned earlier in the feature. #3 · Nov 14, 2009. I've driven with the rear end locked in the winter, can lead to a lot of funny stuff (fishtailing, rear end kicking out of turns, etc). Trader Rating: 75 (100% +) 1/12 spool versus 1/10th rubber tire spool is a massive difference. I like the spool idea, did some research on it, pro drifters are probably running spools, but most everyone else just runs welded diff or "2 way" or VLSD. Poppet valves have a round or oval-shaped disk that opens and closes the intake and exhaust ports. The carrier is locked, as a unit, So there’s no differentiation going on. Stick welded with 7018 rods. Determine whether you’ll be working on butt joints, lap joints, or other configurations. Dec 23, 2022 · The spooled rear end is a type of differential that uses a solid shaft to connect the two wheels instead of using gears. I would like to run a spool as well but since I can't I'm saving for a Detroit. Lockers are expensive and open diffs suck-a-duck off-road, so for chump-cheap traction, it’s hard to beat the But it's a multi-piece component that you install in place of the side gears inside your diff. io/Rex_H_https://opensea. 1/4" and up) and weld bead appearance in not critical Flux core would be a good option. Mar 1, 2006 · Needless to say, no racing for that guy that night. So the RWD locked diff being beneficial due to not needing rear grip and the locked diff on the FWD hurting grip is not really accurate. -Tight turns are a little tricky-Requires a different driving style as you must gas it to oversteer For drift, Welded > clutch > VLSD > open For "grip", Clutch > VLSD > welded > open Apr 1, 2023 · The purpose of using the Spool gun is to have a mini spool inside of it that helps avoid messy welding since the gun feeds itself from the spool. IMO a welded diff is a poor man's locker diff. Turn on the welder and adjust the settings. #5 · Mar 12, 2008. The quantity of wire, film, or other material wound on one reel. #7 · Oct 8, 2013. Oct 6, 2023 · 1. Both wheels turn at exactly the same speed all the time. 89 t-case. Skill Level. May 27, 2021 · I run 37's with a Grizzy (Detroit) in a Dana 44 with Superior shafts and beat it pretty hard. If you have it welded make sure the shop doesn't weld the cross pin in. Just like changing your gearbox ratios or tire size, changing the rear diff ratio can drastically affect your acceleration and top speed. We switched to a spool and never tried anything else. I can send you this spreadsheet if you want to play with tire size / rev limit. Zomby woof Dork. The instructor asked them politely to try changing to an open or a limited slip differential. ---Had a competitor with a diff - rear drive - that kept chasing There are an abundance of different differential types. ) This is usually only done in specific circumstances where the characteristics of the locked diff/fixed axle, which makes it easier to keep both wheels spinning Nov 18, 2011 · Modern differentials come in many flavors—open, limited slip, locking, and spool (which is not even a differential). Im sure the lockers can hold plenty of hp for drag. To put it in perspective, the tip of your nozzle should have a slight lean while still being upright. Others allow for some slip under low pressure, including vLSDs, Clutch-type LSD, and Torsen/Helical differentials. If the welds have failed then it will be more likely to fail again. It should cost $0 to try it, so if it's faster great. 4. I ran a welded up open diff for a couple of years. It's worth mentioning that if a person has a Ford 8 or 9 inch diff, that a mini spool is around 30 bucks, is safer, removeable, and takes less time to install than welding these carriers would. In this article, we will delve into the disparities between four common differentials: open differentials, locking differentials, posi-traction (posi), and limited slip differentials. That's what I wasn't sure of. Holding the spool from below (rather than by the rim), place it on the spool assembly, aligning the hole on the spool with the dowel on the wire feeder. Set your welder properly. Some people weld their differential fixed, for instance to allow easier drifting. there is usually one in your diff already. Suitable only for 28 spline, 4 pinion Borg Warner 78 Series Differential. links coming soon! Apr 9, 2021 · https://midshipgarage. Mar 24, 2021 · A welded/spool differential is a variant on the locked (and subvariant of the open) in that it has been permanently welded from an open differential into a fixed axle. £800-1000 Kaaz LSD. spoolmate 200 vs spool matic 30A. Never an issue. Joint Type: Different welding processes are better suited for specific joint types. Connect the gun cable to the spool gun. 5-way Explained. I prefer to weld diffs. clutch type Cons:-Chirp noise-Minimally faster tire wear-Don't go on the touge. Compressed air from an air compressor, air tank, or CO2 tank flows through an airline to an electric solenoid valve that opens to allow air flow to the air locker at the flip of a switch. 10/6/10 8:43 a. In fact, high power FWD cars may need a locking diff more than a RWD drive car since accelerating unloads the front axle making the inside front wheel more prone to wheel spin. Sep 4, 2021 · Store: https://www. Oct 26, 2021 · So, here’s a quick comparison for you. The full spools are stronger and will last longer. Jul 17, 2007 · Login / Join. Intriguing: 5 huge reasons why to drop welded diff and switch to LSD for drift! You asked we answer!1. GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. Mar 10, 2008 · The Chrysler 9. The lunchbox lockers are junk as well. small jobs: Each TIG welding rod is around 3 feet long, so this process can involve a lot of stopping and starting. Dec 8, 2021 · I would not consider a welded diff. Once the differential was swapped, the drivers started running over curbs all over the track. welding sounds iffy at best. 87 Zuk, dana 44's w/5:38 detroits,coils/3 link frt, 3 link rear 37" Krawlers. When power (torque) is applied in either forward or reverse directions, the unit locks both axles together like a spool. Jul 29, 2017 · Locked differential (also known as a spool) The spool is essentially a solid axle connection between the left and right wheels, or a fixed differential. The open differential is not really “geared” for performance, so it’s out as is (see drop-ins below for open carrier upgrades). I know running a spool is harder on axle shafts than a locker like an arb or detroit and I dont quite have the money for one Store: https://www. com/Quaife ATB diff - https://midshipgarage. 29 with mini spool is also 699 eliminating the need to weld the spiders. Mini spool sounds terrible from a mechanical standpoint. We’re not going to do that, we’re going to make a “Miller Spool” (AKA Fozzy locker) where by the Apr 11, 2006 · Spool: A device that replaces the diff that locks the two axles together in a fashion to prevent a bias in power to the axles. If it isn’t preset, set the hub tension on the spool to ensure it doesn’t unwind when welding stops. For axles the use C-clips, you’ll also need to buy and have C-clip eliminators installed. Sep 23, 2018 · A spool isn't a differential, but rather a positive connection tying the two axles together permanently. If you have a welder with enough amperage to penetrate its a cheap way to lock it. comNFT's: https://opensea. 1/12 was tougher to drive, even after adjusting the car to make it easier (softening springs all around). First, the conductive material is placed between the two pieces of stone. Expect it to fight when you turn corners on hard surfaces. 5-way LSD will have a wider ramp on the deceleration side to provide some lock-up during deceleration. Dec 24, 2009 · MIG lends itself to all of these attributes. I know people use them, but go full spool if you want a spool, but mini spool is like a hack job just above welding the diff. Now if you will be welding primarily outside on thick pieces (i. It locks the axles to the case 100% of the time—just like welded. Now put the aluminum spool into the spool gun’s canister and close it. The axles should never see enough heat to damage them. the welded diff is free, always works but turns like sh_t. What's New; Forum Listing; Marketplace; Showcase; Gallery; Dark Mode; Light Mode Jan 10, 2006 · Welded pro:-Awesome drifting-Cheap-Better than open diff-Indestructable vs. instagram. On the contrary, a 5356 spool gun does a great job of ARB Air Locker and Yukon Zip Lockers use compressed air to convert from an open differential to a fully locked spool. Mini Spools are fitted to an open centre diff (non-LSD). Cornered on two wheels with great traction. If it's a drag truck only that will see no street use, I would go full spool instead of a mini. Make sure you are using the proper gas for aluminum. Once you do that, connect the cable to the spool gun. comDISCOUNT ON TOOLS | CODE: REX10 For 10% OFF: https://garagetools. Jan 4, 2024 · Here’s a more complicated example of a flux-cored wire, E71T-1C JH8 , which breaks down like this: E – Electrode. i don't fully understand how the aussie or the lockright work, 2002 Tacoma Trd 3. com/rex_h Welded differentials are essentially the same as a locked differential, only it has been permanently welded from an open differential into a fixed axle (also known as a spool diff. Stick welding is easier to set up, but because it creates more splatter, there can be more work needed to clean up the weld. And what is called a 50/50 torque-split. Oct 5, 2009 · What is/are the DISadvantages to running a diff that is NOT welded? I've seen the slow-mo videos of welded vs. Jan 27, 2019 · Ya, not necessary for most applications for sure. Done poorly, it's a gamble. 29 open 3rd member is 699 also a 5. This allows better turning characteristics. Spool. When those welds break, they're gonna destory your carrier, bearings, and possibly your axleshafts. In the old days, racers would weld the "spider gears" (the gears mounted inside an open differential that allow the wheels to turn independently in a corner) to their shafts, thus creating a grassroots spool. I started out with a welded rear in the jeep, but hated the street manners, I went arb. It is quick to weld and welds cleanly as well. Dec 20, 2022 · Long-run vs. To get to 100 mph in fourth, you just need a 5750 red line and 225 50 16 tires. Crypto Oct 12, 2016 · A welded differential keeps both of the back wheels on the car spinning at the same speed, but since the wheel on the outside is typically spinning faster than the inner wheel in a turn or corner Jun 9, 2023 · You need to weld at an approximate 20-degree angle. Spider-Seizing. By the time the welding was done, very little of the side gears could be seen. The spool locks the rear 100% with no small parts that can break. since i understand how the spool works but i'm still on the ropes. Mar 23, 2013 · Mini Spool vs Welded Spider Gears. Seems no shortage of low value MX5's now being used for drifting or becoming low budget track cars, with lower budget specs. 1/10th rubber was not too much more difficult. Far stronger than welding your open diff and perfect for drifting on a budget. Mark Williams Enterprises is an industry leading manufacturer of drag race axles, drive shafts, brakes, modular rears, rear end housings, thirdmembers, and chassis components. Common in offroading due to being cheap, easy, and removable. But here is the fun part, using a Spool gun for aluminum Detroit Locker - Automatic "ratcheting-style" differential is known for its reliability, rugged construction, and fully-locked performance on any surface. £1. Welded diff are WAY easier on drivetrain components. If you weld it weld the spiders to themselves, the center pin and the spiders,and spiders to the carrier. Welded gears, done correctly, are probably comparable to a full spool. As is generally the case, many of the terms have alternative names Oct 2, 2023 · For 4x4 enthusiasts, having a firm grasp of different types of differentials is essential when it comes to optimizing a vehicle's performance on various terrains. With the proper knowledge daily driving a welded differential can be a livable experience. shaved and trussed stock axle housings,1. 2001 XJ - 4. 0/AW4/NP242/D44/D44. Some common weld standards include: API 1104 — Welding of pipelines and related facilitiesASME BPVC Section IX — Welding, Brazing, and Fusing QualificationsBS 4515-1 — Specification for welding of steel pipelines on land and offshore - Carbon and carbon EB2 ED EF EL AU Ford Falcon. Recap. Dec 6, 2011 · Welding a differential is typically done to a drift-use car, and is unfavorable to daily-driving conditions. arb. Attach the gas hose from the spool gun to the flow meter on the welder. VN VP VR VS Holden Commodore. Jan 5, 2013 · Lots of top drifters run a welded or spool diff. Sep 4, 2018 · Open Differential. So, going straight on a high-traction-surface tires having equal-traction, Both tires, will receive the same amount of torque. Pure Argon or an Argon and Helium mix will be needed. Share. Secure the spool gun to the welder with screws. com/products/quaife-toyota-mr2-turbo-sw20-89-99-a-t-b-helical-lsd-differential-for-e153-tra Sep 16, 2022 · You'll need to drain and clean the diff before the welding can begin. Also, a spool, welded differential or mini spool causes a lot of stress on axles, studs and wheels. The different types of differentials include an open differential, a locked differential, a welded or spool differential, a limited slip differential, a Torsen differential, an active differential, and a torque vectoring differential. I then upgraded to a 9" with a spool but never had a problem with the welded diff. It won't hurt to try welding the diff up again if that is what you are keen on doing. Because of the permanence factor, this rarely occurs. Compatible with 29 spline open diff stub axles only, WILL NOT work with VLSD stub axles Jul 31, 2023 · A spool differential is an assembly that essentially locks both rear wheels of the car so they rotate at the same speed, regardless of the road conditions. non-welded. 00" tall tires) and a rev limiter of 5000 rpm you should be able to break 100 mph in 5th. nosights. Note the difference with MIG, which uses two numbers multiplied by 1,000. This helps maintain the wire tension on the feeder. This forces both wheels to turn in unison, regardless of the traction (or lack thereof An open diff has a 1 : 1 TBR (torque-bias-ratio). 5k+ OS Giken LSD etc. This system allows the two axles to spin at different speeds. I have (and have had) cars with welders and 2ways, and the difference is very little when drifting IMO. rringnjouwwzewaaqvls
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